Hiragana: b d g h k m n r s t w y z あa ばba だda がga はha かka まma なna らra さsa たta わwa やya ざza んえe べbe でde げge へhe けke めme ねne れre せse てte ぜze いi びbi でdi ぎgi ひhi きki みmi にni りri しshi ちchi じzi おo ぼbo どdo ごgo ほho こko もmo のno ろro そso とto をwo よyo ぞzo うu ぶbu づdu ぐgu ふhu くku むmu ぬnu るru すsu つtsu ゆyu ずzu good morning, good afternoon, good evening おはよう　ございます、 or こんにちわ, or こんばんわ ohayou gozaimasu, konnichiwa, konbanwa どおぞ　よろしく。 "pleased to meet you" (doozo yoroshiku) my name is (...) watashino namaewa (name) desu Good = いいです = iidesu Good, huh? = いいですね = iidesune That was good? = いいですか = iidesuka Good! = いいですよ = iidesuyo understand = わかる = wakaru I don't understand = わかるない = wakaru nai What is とり? = とりわなんですか = toriwa nan desuka In english = えいごで = eigode In japanese = にほんごで = nihongode good = いいです = iidesu I am tired = わたしわねむいです = watashiwa nemui desu hello = こにちわ = konichiwa <<< chat window ID= 36707D18 >>> Virtual1 [HS]: this should work better 《tro ~ : Nice, doesn't need to switch fonts eithe. Virtual1 [HS]: tho I can't guarantee we won't hit that disappearing font bug 《tro ~ : や Virtual1 [HS]: btw, what's that? 《tro ~ : Seems to be working marvelously. Virtual1 [HS]: oh ya 《tro ~ : That, what I just typed was 'ya'. Virtual1 [HS]: heh 《tro ~ : Just random character to test the chat. 《tro ~ : So anyway. 《tro ~ : Now then, to get to your question about ぎ《tro ~ : Note the difference: 《tro ~ : きぎきぎ《tro ~ : (kigikigi) Virtual1 [HS]: はい《tro ~ : Those 2 little strokes in the upper right are called てんてん. (tenten) Virtual1 [HS]: their purpose? 《tro ~ : てんてん makes many sounds become a slightly different sound. Virtual1 [HS]: ah 《tro ~ : k- sounds become g- sounds, h- sounds become b- sounds, s- becomes z-, t- becomes d-. 《tro ~ : Also, I told you earlier that with the exception of one rare occurance, katakana and hiragana are pronounced the same. 《tro ~ : I'll tell ya that rare occasion now. 《tro ~ : You can add てんてん to katakana ウ, to make it sound like 'vu' 《tro ~ : So 'vu' is ヴ Virtual1 [HS]: I don't see ウ in the chart, is it there? 《tro ~ : OSX will allow you to type lowercase 'vu' and it'll make �h, but understand that that is highly impropper, and is just never used. 《tro ~ : Nope. 《tro ~ : It's not there, cause you're looking at the hiragana chart. Virtual1 [HS]: ah 《tro ~ : ウ　is the katakana, while う is the hiragana. Virtual1 [HS]: ok 《tro ~ : So anyway, I'm prolly just confusing you. Just note that while v- sounds are never used in japanese, since they were common in foreign (english) words, they added a v- sound to katakana. 《tro ~ : OKie? Virtual1 [HS]: k 《tro ~ : So, anyway. 《tro ~ : こ Virtual1 [HS]: it's going to take awhile for me to memorize these characters 《tro ~ : Of course. I know, I've been learning em for 1.5 years, and I still stare blankly at one every once in a while. :) Virtual1 [HS]: heh Virtual1 [HS]: ok so we have katakana and hiragana, what's the more complex one? 《tro ~ : So, feel free to look at the chart, if you need to, but try not to. 《tro ~ : Kanji. Virtual1 [HS]: ok Virtual1 [HS]: three written "variations" on one language 《tro ~ : Oh, no, kanji is not a variation. 《tro ~ : kanji is what you've learned, 1 character for a word. Virtual1 [HS]: that evens the ground on languages with one written language but conjugated verbs ;P 《tro ~ : Like 猫 and 犬 Virtual1 [HS]: did you learn all three at once? 《tro ~ : Those are kanji. 《tro ~ : Nope. I don't know very many kanji. 《tro ~ : There are several hundred. Virtual1 [HS]: heh, at least Virtual1 [HS]: I remember hearing a statistic 《tro ~ : We learned hiragana in first year, and have done katakana this year. 《tro ~ : Oh, well, yah, there are like 20,000 kanji, but only about 900 or so or something like that are used really in japanese. Virtual1 [HS]: it said you needed to know a core of at least 2000 to get a good understanding of a newspaper, and upwards of 10,000 to get everything you are likely to see 《tro ~ : Yah, that's in china though. Virtual1 [HS]: oh... hmm, yes you're right 《tro ~ : Chinese is written exclusivly in kanji. 《tro ~ : Yes, Kanji is the same in chinese and japanese. 《tro ~ : Though they're used less in japanese. Virtual1 [HS]: so in your opinion, should I switch my CD to katakana? 《tro ~ : Nope, switch it to hiragana. 《tro ~ : So, anyway, lets get back to learning our hiragana, shall we? Virtual1 [HS]: k 《tro ~ : け Virtual1 [HS]: ke 《tro ~ : こ Virtual1 [HS]: ko 《tro ~ : ぐ Virtual1 [HS]: ko and u are gonna mess me up I can tell 《tro ~ : Nope. Virtual1 [HS]: ku with tenten 《tro ~ : You're thinking of ko and i. Virtual1 [HS]: er ya Virtual1 [HS]: so that's what, gu? 《tro ~ : こいこい《tro ~ : Yup! 《tro ~ : ぐ=gu Virtual1 [HS]: spiffy 《tro ~ : え《tro ~ : え？ Virtual1 [HS]: e 《tro ~ : There ya go. 《tro ~ : き Virtual1 [HS]: (I'm multitasking here) Virtual1 [HS]: k Virtual1 [HS]: er ku 《tro ~ : く=ku Virtual1 [HS]: it'd be nice if they bore some resemblence to eachother 《tro ~ : き=ki Virtual1 [HS]: ah Virtual1 [HS]: I am getting those rows confused 《tro ~ : You're learning. :) 《tro ~ : Also, of note... 《tro ~ : With き, you may see it written with the top half of the circular part missing. Virtual1 [HS]: hm Virtual1 [HS]: shorthand 《tro ~ : So it looks like a slanted, double-crossed t, with a curved line under it. Virtual1 [HS]: ah 《tro ~ : That doesn't matter for us now cause it's all the same font, but if you ever read the hiragana. 《tro ~ : Anyway. 《tro ~ : か Virtual1 [HS]: ka 《tro ~ : き Virtual1 [HS]: ki 《tro ~ : い Virtual1 [HS]: i 《tro ~ : こ Virtual1 [HS]: ko 《tro ~ : いいですね。《tro ~ : (No, I didn't mean for you to try to translate that) Virtual1 [HS]: heh Virtual1 [HS]: i was starting 《tro ~ : Heh. 《tro ~ : iidesune Virtual1 [HS]: ? 《tro ~ : That's the romaji. Virtual1 [HS]: is that anyone I know? ;) 《tro ~ : Heh. 《tro ~ : That's a simple phrase. 《tro ~ : いい is 'good' Virtual1 [HS]: ii ? 《tro ~ : はい Virtual1 [HS]: and desune is? 《tro ~ : desu ends a sentace, and is kinda like the english word 'is'. 《tro ~ : Though not exactly. It's something you'll just come to understand. Virtual1 [HS]: yes I've noticed that... Virtual1 [HS]: japanese parts of speech don't have exact equivelants to english parts of speech 《tro ~ : And the 'ne' in that context, is kinda hard to explain. 《tro ~ : It's kinda asking a question, with a known answer. 《tro ~ : So it's basically, "That was good, right?" Virtual1 [HS]: k 《tro ~ : It's interesting, that in japanese, you pronounce and write the puncutation at the end of a sentance. 《tro ~ : 'desu' can actually be thought of more as a period. 《tro ~ : Kinda. 《tro ~ : 'ka' at the end makes it a question, ie a ?... Virtual1 [HS]: yep Virtual1 [HS]: I had noticed that 《tro ~ : 'yo' adds an !. 《tro ~ : iidesu = Good. 《tro ~ : iidesune = Good, huh? 《tro ~ : iidesuka = That was good? 《tro ~ : iidesuyo = Good! 《tro ~ : わかる？《tro ~ : わかる＝wakaru=understand 《tro ~ : So, わかる？ Virtual1 [HS]: はい《tro ~ : If you *don't* understand, 《tro ~ : say 'wakarunai' 《tro ~ : わかるない Virtual1 [HS]: わかるない《tro ~ : いいですよ。《tro ~ : So, feeling good about all this? 《tro ~ : If I'm a horrible teacher, I'm sorry, btw. :) Virtual1 [HS]: you're doing fine! 《tro ~ : :) Virtual1 [HS]: it's nice to be able to ask questions Virtual1 [HS]: the CD ROMs aren't too good at answering me ;) 《tro ~ : Heh, I know the feeling. My Japanese teacher always insists on me asking my questions in japanese, and answering them in japanese. Which means that sometimes, I just can't figure out what to say. So it's nice when I talk to a friend of mine who is fluent, so I can ask questions and get straight answers. :) 《tro ~ : But, I don't wanna get you too reliant on romaji. 《tro ~ : You should, ideally, be able to read hiragana as well as you can read romaji. Virtual1 [HS]: I just need it to type is all, and once I get the hiragana memorized, I shouldn't even be thinking of the romanjo character combos I'm typing anymore 《tro ~ : Exactly. I don't think of them. 《tro ~ : So anyway... 《tro ~ : If you can figure out how, I'd like ya to ask your questions in japanese. If ya can't figure out how, it's OKie, but at least try. Virtual1 [HS]: I don't think I know enough verbs to do that, but I'll do it when I can 《tro ~ : Like, if I said something, and you didn't know what とり meant, you could ask me what that is in english, in japanese, like this: 《tro ~ : とりわ　なんですか。《tro ~ : That's 'what is とり' Virtual1 [HS]: what does わ represent? 《tro ~ : It's a particle... Kinda like 'is' 《tro ~ : なん = what. 《tro ~ : So, 'とりわ　なんですか' = 'tori is what?' Virtual1 [HS]: how is わ pronounced? (so I can type it) 《tro ~ : wa. Virtual1 [HS]: oh heh Virtual1 [HS]: I should know that 《tro ~ : Erm, actually, it's pronounced, wa, but not written that way. 《tro ~ : Particles in japanese, are odd things. 《tro ~ : They're written as one character, and pronounced as others. Virtual1 [HS]: "wa" works as romanji 《tro ~ : Yah. 《tro ~ : So it's normally written as は《tro ~ : So, correctly, the sentance would be 'とりは　なんですか。' 《tro ~ : Though understand that that は is pronounced as 'wa' 《tro ~ : (that's the character for ha, btw) Virtual1 [HS]: hmm that's confusing 《tro ~ : I know. So if you say とりわ, I'll understand what ya mean, though I'll correct ya. Virtual1 [HS]: とりわなんですか《tro ~ : It's the same way for most particles... を(wo) is pronounced as o, へ (he) is pronounced as e. Virtual1 [HS]: which came from toriwananndesuka 《tro ~ : Anyway, I'm getting way ahead of you, sorry. Virtual1 [HS]: heh Virtual1 [HS]: so to ask what something means, I can just type it and add to the end Virtual1 [HS]: わなんですか Virtual1 [HS]: basically, " ___ is what?" 《tro ~ : Yup. 《tro ~ : Don't get used to thinking that 'わなんですか' is one word or anything, though. :) Virtual1 [HS]: np 《tro ~ : Oh, and... 《tro ~ : 'in english' is えいごで《tro ~ : 'えいご' is the japanese word for english. 《tro ~ : で is just a particle denoting that that's how you do something. Virtual1 [HS]: "de" Virtual1 [HS]: ? 《tro ~ : So, 'Tori in english is what?' 《tro ~ : Yah, that's one particle that's pronounced the same way it's written. :) Virtual1 [HS]: I'm working on three things at once right now... assembling the sentence's order, figuring out how to type the characters I don't know yet, and getting them typed in ;) 《tro ~ : Hehe. Virtual1 [HS]: hmm 《tro ~ : So, any questions? Virtual1 [HS]: n seems to be the one you have to type nn to get 《tro ~ : Well, yah. Virtual1 [HS]: vowels work good just once Virtual1 [HS]: えこいで Virtual1 [HS]: woohoo, got it first try 《tro ~ : Cause when you type n, it doesn't know if you are gunna add an 'a', 'i', 'u', 'e', or 'o' to it, to make なにぬねの。 Virtual1 [HS]: this is like cracking a code. I did this years ago 《tro ~ : Or if you want just n. Virtual1 [HS]: ok... so 《tro ~ : Yah? Virtual1 [HS]: trying to determine order of things 《tro ~ : Like, what things? Virtual1 [HS]: (in english) (bird is) (what) Virtual1 [HS]: or (bird is) (in english) (what?) 《tro ~ : Ah, that's the beauty of the japanese particle system. 《tro ~ : It doesn't matter. Virtual1 [HS]: ?! Virtual1 [HS]: ok... 《tro ~ : In english, you get meaning from word order. 《tro ~ : You get that same meaning from the particles after each word, in japanese. Virtual1 [HS]: ok something here is not working right Virtual1 [HS]: I did something and now I get a wide editfield or listbox or somethign when typing in japanese 《tro ~ : So, えいごで　とりは　なんですか is the same as とりは　えいごで　なんですか《tro ~ : Note that the ですか has to remain at the end of the sentance. 《tro ~ : Verbs are always at the end of a sentance. Virtual1 [HS]: えこいで　とりわ　ですか《tro ~ : Bird. 《tro ~ : Oh, you forgot なん。 Virtual1 [HS]: imasu? 《tro ~ : Go? Huh? 《tro ~ : います=imasu=go Virtual1 [HS]: oh, nan 《tro ~ : はい Virtual1 [HS]: えこいでとりわなんですか Virtual1 [HS]: I take it there is never word separation? 《tro ~ : You can, but it's not required. 《tro ~ : I do it to make it easier for you to read. 《tro ~ : Though you will normally see it not separated. *** Virtual1 [HS] @ work nods *** Virtual1 [HS]: better to leave it out for me so I get used to it 《tro ~ : OKie. Virtual1 [HS]: what's the japanese word for "japanese" Virtual1 [HS]: >? 《tro ~ : Depends. What do you mean? The language, or the nationality? Virtual1 [HS]: とりえこいで、 Virtual1 [HS]: er, Virtual1 [HS]: heh... 《tro ~ : Heh, uhm, dunno what that was supposed to be, but OKie. Virtual1 [HS]: "tori" えこいで Virtual1 [HS]: とり___で《tro ~ : えこい? Virtual1 [HS]: oops 《tro ~ : Do you mean えいご Virtual1 [HS]: yes Virtual1 [HS]: I don't see what i changes to with tenten 《tro ~ : HS crashed... Virtual1 [HS]: ew Virtual1 [HS]: sorry 《tro ~ : Gave the following error: 《tro ~ : Runtime Failure: Failed Assertion. 《tro ~ : ATSUEdit.cpp:749 Virtual1 [HS]: heh Virtual1 [HS]: that's the compiler's fault, dunno what caused it 《tro ~ : Doubt that'd help you at all,. 《tro ~ : Aiyre, figured as much. 《tro ~ : Anyway, what were you saying? Virtual1 [HS]: えいごで Virtual1 [HS]: there that works 《tro ~ : Yah, what about it? Virtual1 [HS]: I am still tryin to figure out how to type them in 《tro ~ : Ah. Virtual1 [HS]: that's "in english" 《tro ~ : Yup. Virtual1 [HS]: what's "in japanese"? 《tro ~ : にほんごで《tro ~ : -ご usually means language. 《tro ~ : にほん=Japan 《tro ~ : にほんご=Japanese Language 《tro ~ : にほんじん=Japanese nationality. Virtual1 [HS]: ok Virtual1 [HS]: ni ho nn go Virtual1 [HS]: nihongo Virtual1 [HS]: heh 《tro ~ : Yup. Virtual1 [HS]: gotcha Virtual1 [HS]: にほんごで《tro ~ : Yup. 《tro ~ : いいです《tro ~ : Anyway... Virtual1 [HS]: that meant "that's it"? 《tro ~ : Basically, yah. 《tro ~ : "Good." Virtual1 [HS]: :) 《tro ~ : Anyway... わたしはねたいです《tro ~ : Erm, no. 《tro ~ : わたしはねむいです《tro ~ : Can ya understand that? Virtual1 [HS]: give me a minute 《tro ~ : k Virtual1 [HS]: first thing I do for the moment is translate it to romanji so I can pronounce it Virtual1 [HS]: since my memory is visual and auditory only 《tro ~ : OKie. Virtual1 [HS]: (I cannot remember written text, learning disability) Virtual1 [HS]: wa ta shi na ne mu i ma su 《tro ~ : Try to get out of that, but that's perfectly fine for now. 《tro ~ : Nope, close. 《tro ~ : wa ta she wa ne mu i de su 《tro ~ : Erm, shi 《tro ~ : watashiwa nemui desu 《tro ~ : I don't expect ya to know what nemui means. 《tro ~ : Though, I dunno, you might. Virtual1 [HS]: that doesn't seem to line up with what you typed 《tro ~ : わたしはねむいです《tro ~ : watashi(ha)nemuidesu 《tro ~ : (ha) being pronounced as wa, it's that particle. Virtual1 [HS]: ah 《tro ~ : Ya know what watashi means, right? Virtual1 [HS]: no 《tro ~ : I. 《tro ~ : As in, me. Virtual1 [HS]: ok 《tro ~ : Me, myself, and I. 《tro ~ : :) 《tro ~ : And ya know kinda how desu is used, Virtual1 [HS]: personal pronouns are always large in japanese it seems Virtual1 [HS]: many characters 《tro ~ : Aiyre. 《tro ~ : So you should be able to figure out "I am _____.", from the watashiwa and the desu. 《tro ~ : (am, because 'wa' means is, and in english, "I is" is said as "I am") Virtual1 [HS]: right 《tro ~ : "I is happy!" = "I am happy!" 《tro ~ : So, you just don't know what 'nemui' means. 《tro ~ : So, ask me what it means. 《tro ~ : :) Virtual1 [HS]: ねむいわなんですか Virtual1 [HS]: えいごで《tro ~ : ねむいわえいごで"sleepy"です《tro ~ : (nemui is, in english, "sleepy", .) Virtual1 [HS]: k 《tro ~ : So, わたしわねむいです is "I am sleepy." Virtual1 [HS]: k Virtual1 [HS]: I need to get working too 《tro ~ : So, I think we'll stop here, and I'm gunna goto bed, if that's OKie. :) Virtual1 [HS]: I'll let ya get to bed Virtual1 [HS]: thx for the lesson, hopefully we can do this more! 《tro ~ : OKie. I have to get up bright and early in the morning tomarrow... Like, 9AM or something! :) 《tro ~ : Yeah, I'd love to, I had a great time. Virtual1 [HS]: k, I'll try to be around then Virtual1 [HS]: see you then! 《tro ~ : Alrighty. :) 《tro ~ : Erm, 《tro ~ : Heh, I won't be available then. Virtual1 [HS]: oh ok 《tro ~ : I'll prolly be available around noon or so, PST. Virtual1 [HS]: k Virtual1 [HS]: that'll let me get some sleep too 《tro ~ : I gotta get up, help my mom burn a CD, then flop back in bed for another couple hours of sleep. :) Virtual1 [HS]: heh 《tro ~ : OKie, >Xya *** 《tro ~ waddles off to her bed *** Virtual1 [HS] @ work waves ***